Functional aero mods - Page 2

RiceRocket · 05-27-2004, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6960

which is heavier lexan or aluminum.... or does it depend on the aluminum guage?? but u kant go too thin cause itll get beat up way to easy then completely kill the whole point of having it....

as far as diffusers and/or a splitter.... i think from what ive read about the enzo and other cars like that that they help to move and channel the air to exactly where u want it... and for some reason i remember it saying something about adding downforce because of negative preasure.... but i dont know the whole physics behind it.... nor do i know if it would help with the CoD....

Screw the Cd, funtional aero mods are the shyt yo

ke6960 · 05-27-2004, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceRocket

Screw the Cd, funtional aero mods are the shyt yo

ummm ur first post says, and i quote....

Quote:

The car already has good aero (cd 0.33, a ferrari modena has a 0.32) so I figured I could make it better and save alittle gas money and get better highway performance.

so make up my ****ing mind...

ausgeflippt13 · 05-27-2004, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6960

wings do not make u more areodynamic

...for FWD cars. They do make you more aerodynamic for RWD/AWD cars, because the wing is able to create more downforce which pushes the rear wheels down to the ground, thus allowing for more friction and a more stable and efficient (in terms of power distribution) ride. So I suppose if you could affix a wing to the hood of your car

you'd be ok so that you'd get sufficient downforce to the driving tires, but then the friction coefficient would be too great and...you get the picture.

jeep45238 · 05-27-2004, 02:47 AM

What you're talkinga about is a great deal of a difference between traction gains and aerodynamic coefficients.

ke6960 · 05-27-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6960

wings do not make u more areodynamic

...for FWD cars. They do make you more aerodynamic for RWD/AWD cars, because the wing is able to create more downforce which pushes the rear wheels down to the ground, thus allowing for more friction and a more stable and efficient (in terms of power distribution) ride. So I suppose if you could affix a wing to the hood of your car

you'd be ok so that you'd get sufficient downforce to the driving tires, but then the friction coefficient would be too great and...you get the picture.

see thats where people get confused downforce from a wing front or rear (they do make front wings they are called something else but they make em) is created by having the wind resistance of the wing push down on the car... this wind resistance hurts areodynamics it may help for stability at speeds but it dosnt help you go faster.... just the oposite actually it slows u down slightly... also most of the wings they make for our cars dont do anything except "look good".... im not saying if people like wings that they shouldnt get them.... but he was asking about the coefficient of drag and a wing will make it worse not better.... if any one dosnt believe me go rent a wind tunnel and try it urself.... (actually i dont know if u kan rent windtunnels..... suposedly theres a way to get a simmilar effect from a dirt road but its not something i know anything about someone was saying it one time but i wasnt really paying attention....)

picksl1 · 05-27-2004, 04:12 PM

dood you forgot the CF canards. ya know those things that are on the side of the bumper and make ur car look like it has mini airplane wings....and ugly

ausgeflippt13 · 05-27-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6960

see thats where people get confused downforce from a wing front or rear (they do make front wings they are called something else but they make em) is created by having the wind resistance of the wing push down on the car... this wind resistance hurts areodynamics it may help for stability at speeds but it dosnt help you go faster.... just the oposite actually it slows u down slightly... also most of the wings they make for our cars dont do anything except "look good".... im not saying if people like wings that they shouldnt get them.... but he was asking about the coefficient of drag and a wing will make it worse not better.... if any one dosnt believe me go rent a wind tunnel and try it urself.... (actually i dont know if u kan rent windtunnels..... suposedly theres a way to get a simmilar effect from a dirt road but its not something i know anything about someone was saying it one time but i wasnt really paying attention....)

you're absolutely correct, but only for FWD cars. The right wing DOES allow for better air flow over the car and thus more downforce to the rear wheels, so for a RWD/AWD car, it is actually advantageous, but definitely not for FWD, because the front (driving) end is actually lifted off of the ground, thus allowing for less traction and therefore less power actually going to the pavement via wheels.

ke6960 · 05-27-2004, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6960

see thats where people get confused downforce from a wing front or rear (they do make front wings they are called something else but they make em) is created by having the wind resistance of the wing push down on the car... this wind resistance hurts areodynamics it may help for stability at speeds but it dosnt help you go faster.... just the oposite actually it slows u down slightly... also most of the wings they make for our cars dont do anything except "look good".... im not saying if people like wings that they shouldnt get them.... but he was asking about the coefficient of drag and a wing will make it worse not better.... if any one dosnt believe me go rent a wind tunnel and try it urself.... (actually i dont know if u kan rent windtunnels..... suposedly theres a way to get a simmilar effect from a dirt road but its not something i know anything about someone was saying it one time but i wasnt really paying attention....)

you're absolutely correct, but only for FWD cars. The right wing DOES allow for better air flow over the car and thus more downforce to the rear wheels, so for a RWD/AWD car, it is actually advantageous, but definitely not for FWD, because the front (driving) end is actually lifted off of the ground, thus allowing for less traction and therefore less power actually going to the pavement via wheels.

no u dont understand what im saying (more downforce)=(less areodynamics) no matter what the car... yes on rwd a properly setup wing can be good for traction but it still hurts your areodynamics. areodynamics has nothing to do with actually staying on the road its just how much air has to be pushed out of the way for u to move....CoD is the measurement of how much drag (air resistance) your car has... the less resistance the better the areodynamics but if u have none at all the only thing holding u to the ground is gravity.... so u need some resistance in order to stay attached to the road, which is what ur talking about (downforce).... downforce and areodynamics arnt the same thing.....

jeep45238 · 05-27-2004, 09:59 PM

Aerodynaics indlude lift and downforce......hell look at Audi's last contender for LeMans. The body design on that thing had enough downforce to allow it to drive upside down at over 100 mph

RiceRocket · 05-27-2004, 10:56 PM

Well well well. I can't begin to number the times I've had to explain this.
Lets clear this up, I've said it 500000000000000000 times already, but I'll say it again for the benefit of new people. Don't you wish you didn't sleep through your 9th grade basic fluid dynamics class? I didn't.

Your both wrong. Before you see why you need to get a few things straight.

1. Our Saturns and just about ANY street car (excluding the Mclaren F1 and the like), DOES NOT MAKE DOWNFORCE (negative lift)!!!!

2. Downforce = negative lift / negative lift = downforce

3. more lift = more drag

Are you still with me? These cars are not producing negative lift at speed and WILL NOT produce negative lift regardless or what ghetto flying wing or splitter you add. That means there is always some lift, that lift is creating drag. Reducing lift by adding a FUNCTIONAL wing, will also reduce drag regardless of rwd or fwd or if its a friggin radioflyer wagon. When people say a wing "makes downforce" what they really mean is that it reduces lift. The only wings that make true downforce are on F1 cars, drag cars, etc. Your Saturn WILL NOT be pushed to the ground by ANY wing you order from JCW or Pepboys.

Let me sumerize.

Lift is bad. Lift is the enemy. Lift slows you down.
Decreasing lift makes you go fast. Decreasing lift reduces your Cd.
Street wings DO NOT MAKE NEGATIVE LIFT, YOUR CAR WILL NOT BE PUSHED TO THE GROUND, IT WILL NOT BE SUCKED TO THE GROUND, YOU WILL NOT INCREASE YOUR CD, YOU WILL NOT INCREASE DRAG.

True downforce and negative lift are what jeep just talked about with the Audi LMP900 cars. They are sucked and pushed to the pavement by aero parts that took millions of dollars to reseach and build. This kind of downforce will slow you down on a straight, but the handling advantages hugely out weigh that side effect. Your car will never make negative lift, so you never have to worry about FUNCTIONAL aero mods that reduce lift/drag to slow you down with their evil "downforce" as ke6990 calls it.

Screw renting a wind tunnel. Try this instead.

Buy a HUGE FRIGGIN RICER WING. The biggest you can find. Better yet, get a wing that you believe to be funtional (and is) and stick it on your car. Go to Arizona take off that speed limiter and bring about a 500lb bottle of NAWWS. Fly yourself down the desert at 200mph. What happened? That wing should be crushing it into the ground, your trunk should be caving in by now. Nope, instead the entire car lifted (cuz it ain't making downforce even with that wing) and you just died cuz it spun out of control.

Try this again in an F1 car. If you manage to hit over 200mph, that thing will be plastered to the ground so hard you won't be able to turn the wheel.