leftbase119

Have 96 SW2. 130,000miles. Good hx of oil changes at prescribed times.

Have consistently been told by dealership that KREX graphite additive is better to be used than synthetic oils in my saturn. I have used it about every other oil change. I do not have any oil use issues of any significance at this time.

Wanted advice as to whether to maintain this KREX schedule or if it is ok (or preferable) to switch to a synthetic especially at this amount of mileage? From both a mechanical and monetary point of view...

Thanks in advance for everyones time and input!

RiceRocket

If its working for you then why stop.....

__________________
Think before you type.
Search before you post.
Understand before you accuse.
And never forget, silence is better than misinformation.

SuperMan69

well first synthetic is alot thinner per weight than conventional oils so a car like the saturn that is known for leaking/burning oil I personally would stay away from synthetic, there is a well versed member on this board that suggests using a high mileage oil from valvoline, i went with it and have had my oil consumption drop in half,

second you have to think of graphite as what it is, a solid particle of matter that seems to reduce friction, but its just that a SOLID particle, there has been much controversy in the oil industry as to whether these solid particle friction reducers (PTFE tephlon, graphite, magnesium) are good for the automotive applications, MOST say no, if for no other reason then the fact that 99% of oil filters arent designed for such applications so will simply catch the particles and not only keep them from reaching the engine in the first place but also clogging the filtering element which opens up the bypass valve and not only lets the graphite past but any other contaminants that are in the oil as well,

so just to recap this is your car and im not offering anything that has any proof so you do what youre going to do, BUT IM not going to be using either synthetic OR an additive that has solid particles in it.

RiceRocket

There's nothing wrong with synthetic. I get 50 more miles to a tank with Mobil 1 than I did with the dealership special conventional crap. If I'm getting that much more milage that means there's MUCH LESS friction. It also hasn't burned a drop.

__________________
Think before you type.
Search before you post.
Understand before you accuse.
And never forget, silence is better than misinformation.

jeep45238

1. no it's not crackpot. 5w30 weight oil is all 5w30 weight oil, synthetic or not. Do you even know what synthetic oil is? It's just a pure form of dino oil!!!

2. Don't use solid particles in your cooling or oil ever. They can eventaully clog the passages and the oil filter.

3. You wouldn't use synthetic because you haven't done any research on it. Shut up....again.....

__________________
Real Short Throws for $30 shipped
Big Bore Taper TB's for $30 shipped
"Sweet! You are a total pro as well. Looks outstanding to me. I'd recommend your work to anyone!" ~ Allen

http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?9Jf

jeep45238

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/79838/index.html



Is Synthetic Worth It?
All Fact, No Friction

By Steve Magnante
Photography: Steve Magnante


It’s pretty amazing when you think about it—all those metal parts spinning away furiously but never making contact. Oil makes it all possible. In addition to serving as a buffer against wear, oil also must cool critical engine parts, pump easily to critical areas at low temperatures, remain stable at high temperatures, and keep internal components clean and free from varnish and corrosive deposits. It’s a tall order, and for more than a century petroleum-based mineral oil has been the literal grease between the wheels. But in the last 30 years there has been a steady growth in the use of synthetic oils.

Where Mineral Oil Comes From

Deep within the earth’s crust are vast reserves of petroleum crude oil. Over millions of years, the decomposition of plant and animal matter form pressurized pockets of liquid that literally burst to the surface when tapped. Over time, the flow diminishes and must be forced by pumping water beneath the crude to make it accessible. As found, crude oil is far from useful in automotive applications. It contains many impurities that must be removed through a distillation process that separates the crude into gases, fuel liquids, lubricant fractions, and heavier components such as asphalt. Further processing of the lubricant fractions removes many impurities such as phosphorus, sulfur, and metals.

The objective of the refining process is to isolate the desired base oils, also known as mineral oils. The problem is that after conventional refining operations are performed, a wide variety of chemical components remain that can affect the size and structural arrangement of the molecules. As a result, there may be weak links that break down and degrade the ability of the oil film to perform all of the critical tasks within an engine when operating conditions run to extremes. It is true that most commercially available petroleum motor oils are produced to a very high standard of purity, but the fact remains that some unknown/unwanted content is still present unless cost-prohibitive extra steps are taken during the refining process.

Because modern production engines are built with closer tolerances and higher operating speeds than ever before and are making more average power per cubic inch, petroleum-based oils have reached a plateau. Now consider the hot rodder and the unparalleled output of our stroked, nitroused, and roller cammed motors, and the need for maximum oil protection is perhaps greater than ever.


What About Synthetic Oil?

Synthesized in chemical plants by reacting components to make a product with the desired properties, synthetic fluids can be virtually anything the chemist needs them to be. Poly-Alpha-Olefins (PAO) are the most widely used synthetic industrial lubricants available today. They are similar to prohibitively expensive super pure parafinic mineral oil but contain no sulfur, no phosphorus, and no metals. And PAOs consist of identical molecules of pure hydrocarbons that can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. Having eliminated mineral oil’s greatest weakness—unwanted molecular “hitchhikers”—the consistent molecular structure of synthetic oil is clearly superior.

So why isn’t synthetic oil in every engine, transmission, and differential? Because it costs more to produce. The key ingredients are decene molecules. Decene is a linear molecule with 10 carbons, and it’s synthesized by first linking together five molecules of ethylene, each of which contains two carbons. The second synthesis step involves polymerization of the decene. Two or more decene molecules are combined to form short chain-length polymers, and from these, PAOs result. No doubt, it’s a capital-intensive manufacturing process that unavoidably leads to higher retail prices than cheaper-to-produce mineral oil.

Additives

So far we have looked at mineral and synthetic base stock. But that’s only half the story. Chemical additives must be introduced to impart new or enhance existing performance characteristics of the base oil to give the resulting lubricant the needed properties to do its job. The ratio of base stock to additives ranges from 75/25 to 85/15 with base stock accounting for the greater volume. Typical additive agents include detergents to reduce the formation of residue, seal conditioners to prevent harm to rubber and synthetic seals while helping to keep them flexible, defoamants to deter the absorption of air, anti-wear agents, friction modifiers, dispersants, and antioxidants.

Viscosity is determined in large part by the presence of additives called viscosity index improvers. Motor oil changes viscosity as its temperature changes—it’s thicker when cold and thinner when hot. Ironically, it needs to act in almost the opposite way. At low temperatures, you’d prefer oil to be thinner so that it flows readily and won’t thicken too much or gel in extremely cold weather, reducing protection and making the engine hard to start. Yet at high temperatures the oil must be thick enough to maintain a critical film to prevent metal-to-metal contact. The ideal oil viscosity must strike a balance between low temperature flow and high temperature protection. Multiviscosity oil is formulated so it can safely be used over a wider temperature range than single-grade oil.

Thanks to additives, multiviscosity oil is possible, and in a quart of 10W-30 for example, you have an oil that acts like 10-weight at cold temperatures and a 30-weight at normal operating temperatures. In this universally adopted rating system, a smaller viscosity number indicates a better ability to flow at lower temperatures, a higher viscosity rating number indicates a thicker, harder to displace film at higher temperatures. Without the proper additives, this seeming twist of logic would not be possible.

To see the difference between mineral-based and synthetic fluids, we enlisted the help of Scott Crouse’s ’65 Mercury Comet. With a hot 347, World Class T5 manual transmission, and 4.11 geared 9-inch rear axle, it’s a rolling torture chamber for vital fluids. First we made a series of runs on the Westech Performance Superflow chassis dyno with 20W50 in the crankcase, Dexron III in the gearbox, and 75W90 gear oil in the TracLoc differential; the result was 408.3 horsepower and 405.1 lb-ft of torque. Then we drained the petro-chemicals and replaced them with man-made hydrocarbons from Royal Purple: 7 quarts of 20W50 synthetic engine oil, 6 quarts of Max ATF, and 2½ quarts of Max Gear 75W90. After a 5-mile jaunt to get everything up to the same temperature as the baseline test, we let it rip. The monitor read 418.4 hp and 411.2 lb-ft of torque, a gain of 10.1 hp and 6.1 lb-ft just by switching to synthetics: an impressive tribute to the reduced coefficient of friction. We’ve seen similar improvements on the engine dyno, and have noted reduced wear through the use of synthetics. They’re a bunch more expensive, but in our opinion, they’re worth it for cars you care about. For your $200 Pinto, stick with the 99-cent stuff.



Tom Olszewski, Group Technical Leader, Exxon Mobil Lubricants & Specialties Co.

• “Mobil 1 with Super Syn offers outstanding wear protection for severe service. Severe service can include trips of less than 10 miles, driving in cold weather, idling for extended periods, stop and go traffic, trailer towing, and driving in dusty conditions.”

• “Provides incredible performance under superheated racing conditions in NHRA and NASCAR testing.”

• “Greater engine efficiency due to high resistance to oxidation (thickening). This lowers oil con sumption under high-speed driving conditions.”

Allan Perry, Technical Specialist, Kendall Motor Oil

• “Kendall Elite has low volatility (evaporative losses) for lower oil consumption and lower fluid friction for cooler operating temperatures.”

• “Synthetics have better low-temperature fluidity/pumpability for easier starting and to ensure that the oil reaches critical engine parts faster.”

• “Better thermal stability at high temperatures for longer oil service life and improved deposit protection.”

"












"Despite all the myths, synthetic motor oil mixes readily with mineral oil so there is no need to flush the engine prior to treatment. Used synthetic fluids can be safely mixed with mineral oils for disposal or recycling."





Some people just blab without getting up on current technology, don't they?

__________________
Real Short Throws for $30 shipped
Big Bore Taper TB's for $30 shipped
"Sweet! You are a total pro as well. Looks outstanding to me. I'd recommend your work to anyone!" ~ Allen

http://batracer.com/-1FrontPage.htm?9Jf

SuperMan69

and again you have either mis-read my post or are a complete moron that just likes to fight,
FACT synthetic oil is physically thinner while holding the same viscosity rating(5w-30) as conventional oil, that is why so many synthetic oils reduce friction versus a standard oil of the same 'weight',so this being said in an engine that leaks or burns oil switching to synthetic without changing anything else WILL make the leaking or burning worse. synthetic does reduce friction and parasitic losses due to windage and also protects better then a regular oil but youll just be going through it faster
(if you already have a leaking problem)

96SL1Limit

off topic here a bit, but its funny watching u2 fight like cats and dogs!! ROLF

__________________
If Dirty Hary spoke Latin.

Age. Fac ut gaudeam!

RiceRocket

That's kinda funny cuz "viscosity" is a fancy word for "thickness". 5w-30 is a measure of the oil's thickness. You can have 5w-30 conventional, 5w-30 syntec, and 5w-30 water.....it doesn't make a differnece. They're all the same thickness. Syntec can also stop oil burning because it doesn't break down like conventional does. My car is the perfect example....hasn't burned a drop with Mobil 1 for the 1,000 miles since I've got it changed.

Having a thinner oil will INCREASE NOT DECREASE friction. The thinner oil with put less of a demand on the oil pump and be easier for parts to move through, but WILL NOT decrease friction.

__________________
Think before you type.
Search before you post.
Understand before you accuse.
And never forget, silence is better than misinformation.

SuperMan69

"Viscosity
A sticky subject
We can say that viscosity is the resistance a material has to change in form. This property can be thought of as an internal friction.

Laminar Flow
To get a good feel for viscosity, we need to first digress and remember laminar flow. If a fluid or gas is flowing over a surface, the molecules next to the surface (the ones clinging to the walls) have zero speed. As we get farther away from the surface the speed increases. This difference in speed is a friction in the fluid or gas. It is the friction of molecules being pushed past each other. You can imagine that the amount of clinging-ness between the molecules will be proportional to the friction. This amount of clinging-ness is called viscosity. Thus, viscosity determines the amount of friction, which in turn determines the amount of energy absorbed by the flow."


now if you read this AND are able to understand it then you will see that viscosity has really nothing to do with thickness or density of a liquid but refers to its ablility to coat a surface or create a barrier between surfaces without giving way under pressure. Now when dealing with a single substance, say conventional motor oil, it is fairly safe to say that a thicker version of this substance will have a higher viscosity rating. NOW my point is that we are NOT dealing with the same materials when considering conventional versus synthetic oils. synthetic oils are specifically designed to reduce friction by being a thinner substance while maintaining the same VISCOSITY rating as is needed to create a substantial barrier against metal to metal contact and therefore let the engine spin more freely and work less hard to acheive its goal HP. that is why many companies say that their synthetics free up horsepower and give better gas mileage, because they are able to use a thinner substance while keeping the protective characteristics of its neighbor the conventional oil. to test this out all you have to do is go to your local auto parts store and buy a couple bottles of the highest 'weight' oil you can find, one bottle conventional and one synthetic, pour them out into a small funnel and see just how much thinner the synthetic is compared to the conventional of the same 'weight'.

im just waiting to hear what you have to say against this