Saturn Spot
 

 


Go Back   Saturn Spot > Saturn Model & Technical Discussion > How Do You Fix This? > Technical Issues


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-05-2005, 03:40 AM   #1
z3r00n3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 54
Default code p0741 "TCC circuit or performance stuck"


I got this code 3 days ago and have driven the car since, added 2 qts of oil tonight because it was low. I admit I was driving like an idiot in my 97 SC2, automatic-stuck it in "performance" mode and dropped into 2nd thinking I was a nascar driver or something stupid. The ses light popped on, I cleared the code and checked it when it appeared again, P0741 is a TCC solenoid circuit problem. Which of the 5 solenoids would the TCC be by looking at the top of the tranny and what steps should i take to fix her?

THanX

__________________
anything aftermarket is just a waste of money-nothing lasts forever
z3r00n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 10:16 AM   #2
SL2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NOT around here.
Posts: 2,081
Default

z3r00n3: good ol days of downshifting an auto! woohoo! i think is is why my auto quit working as well man. is it slipping or shifting fine? it might just be solenoid i really can;t say im so drugged up with meds thanks to the doctor.
__________________
I = B&
SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 05:42 PM   #3
z3r00n3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 54
Default

Well I noticed my trans will shift fine until I hit about 60 on the freeway then will not downshift, into overdrive. it will keep ringing up the rpm's until I hit 85, I havent really gone above that because it's been wet outside. I checked the solenoids and all have a resistance of 4.9-5.2 Ohms. I also went as far as checking the plate that they all connect to (kinda like a printed circuit board) to see if there was a bad connection there-nope. I also blew through all the solenoids to see if there was one that was stuck, I could blow through all of them. I dont know which solenoid is which, is there a site where I can see all of the parts?? Im thinking it might be electrical at this point, a month ago I smelled a burning smell under the steering wheel-I thought $#!+, it's the airbags or something. Today I will trail that back to it's source and see que pasa. I do know the brakes are tied to the same switch as the TCC so maybe a failure in the brakes could be sending a message to the quad driver??? I need to fix this but dont know how much damage Im doing to the car
__________________
anything aftermarket is just a waste of money-nothing lasts forever
z3r00n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 10:55 PM   #4
z3r00n3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 54
Default

I talked to a mechanic he says it may be the torque converter itself, I hope not b/c im not in the mood to tear the tranny out again. THere is a clutch in the Torque Converter which engages and I guess it is not doing what it is supposed to. I replaced the TCC solenoid (third one to the back if standing in front of the car -to no avail, SES light comes back on when warmed up and freeway speeds.) I wish there was a way to put the car back in 2nd gear throw on the "performance" (ya right) button and have the computer reverse the logic. I told the mechanic it might be wiring and he was pretty confident when he said it was the Torque Converter that was causing my headache. What do you think?
z3r00n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2005, 04:26 AM   #5
Ssicarman
Community Manager
 
Ssicarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,725
Default

Diagnostic chart for your code.



DTC P0741
Circuit Description




When torque converter clutch (TCC) is commanded ON, the comparison of engine speed to input shaft speed is monitored to assure TCC is ON. When the TCC is ON, the engine speed and input shaft speed are equal. TCC is applied by grounding circuit 422.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
DTC P0741 is set when the PCM has detected the following conditions for more than 7.5 seconds twice per ignition cycle:

• The transaxle fluid temperature is above 20°C (68°F).

• No engine or input shaft speed, or signal noise DTCs.

• Engine speed is greater than 908 RPM.

• Input shaft speed is greater than 224 RPM.

• TCC has been commanded ON for more than 5 seconds and there has been no gear change.

• Speed difference across the torque converter is greater than 280 RPM.

Test Description
Numbered steps below refer to numbered steps on the chart.

Check for DTCs P0740, P0743, P0744, P0756, P0758, P0759, P0761, P0763, P0764, P0766, P0768, P0769, P0781, P0782, or P0783. They must be eliminated first as a possible cause of DTC P0741.
Check the solenoid operation. Use the solenoid quick check in the test section located at the end of the DTC charts. The actuator quick test will PWM the solenoids at a set rate. Listen and compare the noise of the TCC gear solenoid to that of other solenoids. The noise of all should be similar.
Important: To check solenoid operation, command the solenoid quick test using the scan tool.


Other possibilities for DTC P0741 to set:
- Internal leakage in the TCC apply circuit

- Possible low line pressure

- Converter charge valve stuck causing TCC apply pressure to be exhausted to lube

- Converter limiting valve stuck open

- Missing or damaged torque converter-input shaft O-ring

Repair Verification
Monitor the DTC menu Code Status for Pass Since Code Clear and Pass This Ignition Cycle. When both have passed, the repair is verified.

Criteria for pass:

• The TCC is commanded ON.

• The ratio across the torque converter is 1:1 for 12 seconds.

Diagnostic Aids
• When the PCM detects a fault in the circuit, an open, ground, or short, the PCM will open the circuit internally to protect the circuit.

• This DTC may be caused by a poor electrical connection at either the PCM, actuator connector plate, IPJB terminals, or UHJB terminals. Wiggling the connectors while performing an actuator quick test may help isolate the problem area.

• Due to the clutch priority valve, this DTC will be set when 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear is determined to be stuck ON.


TCC Apply


- The engine temperature is above 20°C (68°F).

- The vehicle speed is above 26 km/h (16 mph).

- The transaxle fluid temperature is above a given value in relation to the intake air temperature (IAT) sensor value.


TCC Release


- Low engine speed downshift, e.g., light throttle or steady throttle, with load increase.

- Low end of the 3rd gear speed range, brake ON equals TCC OFF.

- Fast deceleration, i.e., brake lock on ice equals TCC OFF, gear equals neutral.

__________________
A lousy day in Paradise is still a day in Paradise.
Ssicarman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2005, 05:09 PM   #6
z3r00n3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 54
Default

Thanks Ssicarman I will check out the list and go through the possibilities. I just hope there is something simple I have overlooked like a wire or something----that code description means a lot to me, thanks!
z3r00n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 10:07 PM   #7
z3r00n3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 54
Default

is there any chance this could be caused by the quad driver, the car will not shift to overdrive, should I expect this to be an electrical or mechanical problem (bad wiring, OR bad seal below solenoids) another question is where is the Overdrive solenoid or last gear solenoid? I replaced the TCC (third from front) in what order do the solenoids go?

THANKS!!!!!
__________________
anything aftermarket is just a waste of money-nothing lasts forever
z3r00n3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 03:22 AM   #8
Ssicarman
Community Manager
 
Ssicarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,725
Default

There is no "overdrive" solenoid. Over drive would be considered 4th.
TCC sol is the "middle" one, sounds like the one that you replaced.
What is the trans not doing? Still popping the code?
__________________
A lousy day in Paradise is still a day in Paradise.
Ssicarman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:48 AM.

© 2006 - 2014 CrowdGather | Advertisers | Investors | Legal | A member of the Crowdgather Forum Community

 

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.